Trinity, final argument?

Trinity Doctrine.  Is this Biblical or not?  How do we find Trinity Doctrine in the Bible?

Many people want to quote John 1 and repeat the words how the Word was God and is God,  and later how the Word was made flesh.  God made flesh? This should be the end of the argument correct?  Wrong, for many people still refuse to read these verses and find other places in Bible trying to promote a 1 God.   Which is ok because we are not to break the 1st commandment correct?  But why worry about any of the 10 commandments if they are nailed to cross? (Different topic).

Without the 10 commandments,  why is it wrong to worship more than 1 creator?  Minds well join the Catholic Church in statue worship and Mary worship and Pope worship correct?  No this isn't bashing Catholic because many people in many Religions worship different beings.  Like Muslims believe the rock in Mecca removes sins and rock remembers all who kisses it etc etc.  Hindus believe in many gods and Native Indians believe in many gods etc etc list goes on.  Even the Religion of Mormons believe they will one day become a god.

• But what does the Bible say?

• Is Trinity Doctrine inside the Bible?

First let's go back to Genesis.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2015/10/genesis-1-26-27?lang=eng

Even the Mormons recognize that God was speaking to someone in the making of humans as God and that "Other" create together. But Mormons also believe in many gods and how they will one day be gods in the afterlife based on the opinion of their founder and not from the Bible.

(Picture is about the 2 books listed in picture above)

They have to create stories just like Muslims had to create stories that do not align with Bible. And so we need to ask ourselves, who has "Final Authority"? Bible or Man?

https://www.biblestudytools.com/genesis/1-26-compare.html

Every translation provided also translates "...Let us make..."

https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-26.htm

https://www.etzion.org.il/en/tanakh/torah/sefer-bereishit/parashat-bereishit/bereishit-let-us-make-man-0

• There are better links that can talk about this better than I can, and so investigation is always required to one who wants to know more.

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/49831/image-vs-likeness-in-genesis-126

This link is mainly focused on the "Image" topic but also includes the part "Let Us".  Being made "Like" God,  in His "Image" doesn't necessarily mean we are God for no creation can ever be God but we can resemble characteristics of God, correct? This link above is a good read to one who wants to read something interesting.  But besides all the details of word breakdowns and translations, where else in the 66 books of the Bible do we find God being used as a plural or God being manifested in the flesh talking and eating and walking with His creation?

Here I enjoy sharing my little post on Genesis 18, where God, who is is"Consuming Flame" (Hebrew 12:29 and Duet 4:24, 9:3 - God is a consuming flame and God cannot be near sin.) is with man for a long period of time (time to fetch an animal, kill and clean and cook it etc) with Abraham and his wife.  Genesis 18 is a good story about God coming down to Abraham and discussing about Lot and the soon destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah which God thought good to tell Abraham about.

• Why did God tell Abraham anything?

• Why did God spend hours and hours with Abraham,  talking with Abraham,  eating food with Abraham,  walking with Abraham etc?

• Was not Abraham a sinful man like the rest of us?  Would not Abraham have been killed by the presence of God since God cannot be near sin and is a Consuming Flame?

• Is this a contradiction?  Is the Bible full of contradictions?

Only with the idea of Trinity can we understand stories like Genesis 18 where God is in the flesh eating animals with Abraham. Without the Trinity Doctrine, one has to twist Scriptures and ignore others?

God eating animals? I thought God was God of love and yet here we see God allowing death.   That goes into a whole nother topic but you can research that one if you like.  Where else is God in the Bible?

Exodus 33:20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”

There are verses talking about how man/sin cannot be near God,  and yet God can be near sin?  Contradiction?

https://histrainfillsthetemple.wordpress.com/2016/08/01/appearances-of-god-in-human-form-in-the-old-testament/

Angel of the Lord is mentioned many times in the Bible,  but what does Angel of the Lord mean?

• Gen 16:7, 9-11, 22:11, 22:15

• Exo 3:2

• Num 22:22-35

• Jdg 2:1, 4, 5:23, 6:11-12, 21-22, 13:3, 13, 15-18, 20-21

• 2Sa 24:16,

• 1Ki 19:7

• 2Ki 1:3, 15, 19:35

• 1Ch 21:12, 15-16, 18, 30

• Psa 34:7, 35:5-6

• Isa 37:36

• Zec 1:11-12, 3:1, 5-6, 12:8

• Mat 1:20, 24, 2:13, 19, 28:2

• Luk 1:11, 2:9

• Act 5:19, 7:30, 8:26, 12:7,23

This link I went thru some of the verses, and some stand out which requires further investigation. Judges 6:11 (in link) I stopped as I was trying to make a point that Angel simply means messenger and that Angel of the Lord is also sometimes God Himself.

Example:

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

This part we see an "Angel of the Lord" appeared to Moses and when it speaks, it is identified as God.  As Jehovah (yehôvâh - H3068 Exodus 3:7). How do we figure this out when an "Angel of the Lord" is inside a burning bush and identified as Jehovah God while being an "Angel of the Lord" at the same time?  With a Trinity mindset we can understand this, but with a different mindset how do you explain this?

There are many other places that have this sort of thing, not just Exodus, and not just Genesis with the "Us" and "We" and "Our" plurals God uses etc etc.  You can find examples like this throughout the Old Testament,  but let's go ahead and dive into New Testament shall we?

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Mary was impregnated and her womb has the Holy Ghost.   Who is the Holy Ghost?  Is this the spirit of God? The Rûach from Genesis 1:2??? Or is this another entity from God?  When is an Angel ever mentioned as the Holy Ghost/Spirit???  So we can conclude that this baby is not an heavenly being (angel) correct?

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whatever entity this Holy Ghost is, you cannot blasphemy it or you won't be forgiven.  So we can blaspheme God but not Holy Ghost???  This Holy Ghost must be more powerful or equal in power to God?  Because God forgives our sins and sent Jesus to relieve our sins and place them on the cross, hence the saying covered by the blood of Jesus correct?  Jesus's blood covers us when we are saved but Jesus's blood cannot cover us and God cannot forgive us if we blaspheme the Holy Ghost???

• Does this make sense?

We have God.  Now we have a powerful entity called Holy Ghost.

• This same breeze/breath is used to created Adam correct?

So God breathed into Adam the life giving force. This same force has the power over God to forgive or not forgive you if you blaspheme it.  This same power also hovered over the waters of Earth during its creation days. How is this possible with a 1 God Doctrine without using the Trinity Doctrine?  Where Trinity Doctrine states all 3 are 1 and the same but different while Unitarian views only 1 God and nothing else as powerful than the 1 God.  Before the New Testament,  there are indicators in the Torah about 2 gods but also used interchangeably as they are 1 God.

I can add more to this topic (and I should), but I'll end it here with a little extra notes/verses:

Isaiah 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

• Is this verse referring to God being before generations and after generations or referring to Himself as first and being with the last,  Himself?

• What is Isaiah 41 saying?

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

• So God is the First and Last and also with the Last???

Revelation 1:17-18 [17]And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: [18]I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

I am he that liveth and died and alive evermore???  God died? Or Jesus claiming to be God,  to be first and last? Alpha and Omega? Or I should ask, who is making this statement in Revelations?

John 1:1-2,5,8,10,14

[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2]The same was in the beginning with God.[5]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.[8]He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.[10]He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. [14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Many people love to goto John for John says how the Word is God and with God and made flesh and yet the world knew Him not.  Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is the First and Last, beginning and end, Alpha and Omega.

I hope this raises more questions as I pray the Holy Spirit does set fire in your heart, a burning passion to want to learn more, a Desire to learn more on what does the Bible say over man's opinion (even my opinion). The Trinity Doctrine is good and the Trinity is everywhere in the Bible to one who seeks it, but we cannot just take verses out of context and make it say whatever we want, we must stay inside the context of the related verses in question to the chapter/story/book we found the verse correct?

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, Beginning and Last. Jesus is God 💝💝💝.

• Does this end the Trinity debate?

Sadly no, there will always be a debate for every Doctrine until Jesus comes and the end is finally here. That day will be the only time ever when all Doctrines are settled, and then we spend 1000 years I heaven investigating. We will spend alot of time in heaven investigating so why not learn how to do that now?

Jehovah Witnesses are incorrect according to this Jesus topic.

Mormons are incorrect as well.

Muslims are incorrect.

Catholics are incorrect also because the Pope claims to be God on Earth which is wrong and you can keep going down the list of Religions and Denominations that argue over the Jesus is God topic for with just this post here I found out that the Holy Spirit has more power than God in the proclaimed Unitarian view.

• How is the Holy Spirit more powerful than God?

• What more can you add to this topic?

• What verses can you share? (Either viewpoint)
  

• Who is the First and Last, Beginning and end, Alpha and Omega?

#EFDoctrines